Curse

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2006, 03:41 AM // 03:41

First lets start with the sythe.

Its now adjacent range and only foes in front of you. You very rarely hit more than 1 target. This is very very bad. All the pressure the dervish was capable of is now gone. The attack speed is slower than hammer but only does 3 more dmg. That's pretty lame.

Wounding strike was made an elite. The only method of deep wound is elite. So now you have to choose basicly either an avatar or be able to deep wound.

On the buff side the sythe skills affect all foes hit instead of just the target. Not all the skills remove enchantments now.

Overall the sythe was hit pretty hard.

Now to the avatars. These are most likely the only choice for elites. Melandru's is useless now at 25e. That's your entire energy pool. You'll never be able to use it if you hit the all too common dual surge mesmers. Even with the energy boost the 2 cast time remains. The avatars are easily interrupted when you are on the frontlines. You'll lose a lot of pressure if you run to the backlines just to use your avatar (assuming a ranger isn't sitting on your face).

AoE enchantments have been reduced to adjacent range. All the holy dmg enchants have been reduced and 20 recharge. So....you can't use them for pressure, 3 foes might get hit if your lucky, and the 3/4 casting still remains. With the reduction of range you can barely hit anything. Anytime a dervish gets close to anyone they begin running. Anyone can kite out of adjacent range in 3/4 seconds.

Mystcism's hp has been reduced to 1 hp per attribute. Basicly you won't even notice it. It should be at 2. 15 Myst is where you want it for the last breakpoint. At 2 per attribute its only 30 hp. That's not very much. I can get more than that with vigorous spirit in 2 hits.

To me the dervish is off my list of primary classes for pvp in GvG. Would be a good flag runner with balth's avatar but that's about the only use I can think of. Everything else other classes can do better.

unmatchedfury · Sep 24, 2006, 03:47 AM // 03:47

I'm not sure because i havn't actually had time to play the game. If deverishes suck as much as the rit does in PvP it may well become my favorite class. i have a weakness for underapreachiated and underused classes. Although channeling rits seem to be as common as whammos in RA these days.

lyra_song · Sep 24, 2006, 03:56 AM // 03:56

Yes, they definitely overnerfed compared to their PvP-weekend version.

Its just...painful.

Ryo Azuro · Sep 24, 2006, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Poor Dervish. I hope they can balance the Dervish out more. That's the main class I want to play once Nightfall finally comes out. *Crosses fingers* Let's hope for the best!

- Ryo

lightblade · Sep 24, 2006, 04:02 AM // 04:02

Dervish is still pretty good...I pick 2 Dervish henchmen over 2 Warrior henchmen.

Kha · Sep 24, 2006, 04:04 AM // 04:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

AoE enchantments have been reduced to adjacent range.

Is it just me, or do the two "adjacents" (scythe and AoE enchantment) not cover the same area? I actually found the scythe hitting farther targets than when I used the enchantments. And no the monsters weren't moving. It was odd to me and found it hard to do combo attacks. Maybe it was just a bug.

Alberic · Sep 24, 2006, 04:07 AM // 04:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kha

Is it just me, or do the two "adjacents" (scythe and AoE enchantment) not cover the same area? I actually found the scythe hitting farther targets than when I used the enchantments. And no the monsters weren't moving. It was odd to me and found it hard to do combo attacks. Maybe it was just a bug.

I think that's because when you use the enchantments, they hit targets adjacent to YOU, and when you hit your target with a scythe, it hits targets adjacent to that target. That's all I could think of when I was noticing the same thing, anyway.

Kha · Sep 24, 2006, 04:16 AM // 04:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alberic

I think that's because when you use the enchantments, they hit targets adjacent to YOU, and when you hit your target with a scythe, it hits targets adjacent to that target. That's all I could think of when I was noticing the same thing, anyway.

Makes sense. It didn't seem like the scythe was hitting foes just in front of me though, but I really wasn't enough attention to that. I just noticed that casters/rangers int he area that were near my target were hit by the scythe but not by the enchantment.

I was too busy being upset with Koss who decided that while I was on my Dervish he just wouldn't attack (he was fine for me when I tried the Paragon.) He would even STOP in battle for no reason... but that's for another thread.

KANE OG · Sep 24, 2006, 04:24 AM // 04:24

I have no idea what the OP is talking about.... nerfed? I don't think so.

tomcruisejr · Sep 24, 2006, 04:35 AM // 04:35

so no more whirling dervishes? so dervish is now "another warrior in disguise"?

how would a.net revitalize the game if they are afraid to take risks of introducing "OVERPOWERED ZOMG!!!" classes? monks, elementalists, mesmers and warriors are so 1+++ years ago.

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2006, 04:42 AM // 04:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by lightblade

Dervish is still pretty good...I pick 2 Dervish henchmen over 2 Warrior henchmen.

In pve they will be kings. The AI is dumb and doesn't know to stay away from the dervish.

As for PvP put a dervish vs a monk. The dervish can't kill him alone. While a war can solo a monk.

jimmyhats · Sep 24, 2006, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

In pve they will be kings. The AI is dumb and doesn't know to stay away from the dervish.

As for PvP put a dervish vs a monk. The dervish can't kill him alone. While a war can solo a monk.

qft.

last night i was gvging with my dervish, and while i could get monks down to like 20% hp or less, i could never quite get the kill until our war came and gave 'em a couple whacks with the ol' hammer. now... taking out lone warriors and casters.... well thats a whole different story xD

dervs are definatley less powerful than they were during the pvp bwe... i would love to see them re-buffed at least a little before release.

...and i agree 100% that either wounding strike should not be elite, or dervishes need some other (non-elite) way to apply a deep wound.

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2006, 05:02 AM // 05:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyhats

...and i agree 100% that either wounding strike should not be elite, or dervishes need some other (non-elite) way to apply a deep wound.

I don't like the change but I can understand it. During the pvp weekend the sythe skills affects only applied to your target while other's were hit for normal dmg.

That has now been changed. The deep wound can hit mulitple targets. That can be really nasty but its a hard choice.

Nightwish · Sep 24, 2006, 05:09 AM // 05:09

Dervish is definitely much lacking compared to the previous preview. They can still do well in pve but in pvp....As already stated, there is almost too many nerfs on this class.

Using aoe dmg enchants for example, they are nerfed in almost every aspect. I was very sure there will be a nerf (recharge/damage/radius), but not all three.

Kakumei · Sep 24, 2006, 05:29 AM // 05:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

only foes in front of you.

This is false. If you have one person in front of you and one behind you, you will hit them both.

Quote:

On the buff side the sythe skills affect all foes hit instead of just the target.

They always did.

TadaceAce · Sep 24, 2006, 05:31 AM // 05:31

They aren't even very good in pve imo. OP got nerfs I can see

-Scythe Attack Speed
-AoE reduced to adjacent.
-Balt Rage/Holy Flame damage reduced
-Enchant Recharges nerfed to double and some
-Some costs increase (mirage cloak i.e.)
-Pious Renewal made elite
-Wounding strike turned elite but was buffed to go with it so whatever.
-Mysticism is worthless with the nerf of all dervish enchants and itself.

There are more but I can't think of them. The dervish primary is dead to me, the dervish is just another secondary my ranger will abuse expertise on. As far as paragon, I havn't played it but I already know R/P is powerful.

twicky_kid · Sep 24, 2006, 05:36 AM // 05:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

This is false. If you have one person in front of you and one behind you, you will hit them both.

They always did.

Tested it earlier and it didn't hit anything behind me. So many bugs and incorrect skill discriptions with this event so I'm not for sure which one is suppose to happen.

No the skills did not affect all targets hit before. It was only your target that was affected.

I played GvG with my dervish in a balanced group and Crippling sweep NEVER crippled more than 1 person no matter how many I hit at the same time.

Ken Dei · Sep 24, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

To sum it up they beat the hell out of the Dervish for only a few half-decen reasons.

What they shoulda done, and hence, should do before release:

Mysticism Attribute:

Obviously overpowered as it was, it's now broken ad useless, 80% of the durability of the Dervish came from the bonuses of this attibute.

How it should be:

-2 health and energy per 3 levels for Dervish enchants.
-2 health and energy per 4 levels for other enchants, monk or otherwise.

The Scythe:

The dmg is acceptable now that all skills effect all adjacent players. As for skills, they seem fine.

AoE:

Some skills should have wider the Adjacent, if not all, change it back.

Avatars:

I told you after the PvP test...I said this, go search for it if you like. A.net, if you're going to balence the Dervish, DO NOT F@&K WITH THE AVATARS! Change those back, immediately and lock them in a damn vault, they were fine as they were and didn't need ANY balencing at all.

Noted Skill change:

Meditation: You gave it a 2 second casting time, unacceptable. Make it less again.

All in all much of Dervish was perfect as it was. There were no need for half the nerfage it saw.

A.net, if you don't want to have another broken class like the assassin and spend the net few updates undoing your previous mistakes, listen to those of us who know what's needed.

Put most of the Dervish back together, leave the scythe as it is, that was a good change. Mysticism needs modifcation to avoid abuse, but there is NO excuse for what you did to the avatars.

DO NOT SCREW THIS UP.

Kakumei · Sep 24, 2006, 05:46 AM // 05:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by twicky_kid

Tested it earlier and it didn't hit anything behind me. So many bugs and incorrect skill discriptions with this event so I'm not for sure which one is suppose to happen.

My playtesting in RA today suggests otherwise, though I suppose I'm not certain.

Quote:

No the skills did not affect all targets hit before. It was only your target that was affected.

Unless you're referring specifically to the Scythe Attack skills, this is false: I am absolutely certain Drunken/Desperation Blow trigger (and did trigger in the previous event) on all struck enemies.

Guardian of the Light · Sep 24, 2006, 06:21 AM // 06:21

Don't underestimate the dervish so much.

Their not like assassins or warrior so they can't do very good finishing skills.

However they are extremely good at spreading damage. I tried Apply Poison on a R/D and it pwned up RA. Their basic power comes from the fact that they can hit more then one target at a time.

However yes Anet did overnerf the dervish a bit. Some skills I can't understand why they made elite (wounding strike WTF!).